Comments on: Incarnational V Attractional Mission http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:43:17 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Backyard Missionary » Blog Archive » Big Hitters http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-284115 Backyard Missionary » Blog Archive » Big Hitters Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:21:03 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-284115 [...] Incarnational v Attractional Mission - a fairly polemic and feisty piece I wrote for a youth ministry seminar. Its sure to piss some [...] [...] Incarnational v Attractional Mission – a fairly polemic and feisty piece I wrote for a youth ministry seminar. Its sure to piss some [...]

]]> By: Hamo http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-208175 Hamo Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:53:39 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-208175 G'day Bill This post actually had about another 60 comments which gave clarity to the questions you were asking - but in transferring hosting they were all lost. Oddly enough I wrote a post last night that may clarify my understanding on some of what you ask. A couple of other thoughts: It was intentionally polemic as it was written originally for a debate. I have caricatured somewhat for the sake of getting an argument going :) To answer your questions: Q: Why can’t the church be both attractational and incarnational at the same time? A: See my post from last night (written before your comment oddly enough) Q: Isnt there the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal son? A: Yes, but I don't think the father set out to make 'home' as sexy as possible to win the son back home. Q: And how can people be sent if there is no place for them to gather in twos or threes? A: I agree with the need to gather - no argument there at all. It just doesn't need to take a specific form. Q: Or is as simple as saying “as long as you dont have a building and walk and live among the community you are incarnational? A: No - I think that would be a caricature the other way! Q: Where is the sustainability financiall in that kind of set up? or are you advocating that all clergy should be bi-vocational, or that we do away with clergy altogether? A: Complex question. I prefer bivoc approaches to ministry these days, but i appreciate some people are called and required to serve full time vocationally. Having seen the view from both sides of the fence I like the bivoc persepective better - but it is a difficult balancing act. Q: Before pastors of churches start buying into such theology they better know the consequences. Better yet, are you a pastor of a church that has a building? A: I have a building. It is my home. Seriously - that is a building and it is adequate to the task before us. Maybe one day I will again work for a church that has a dedicated building, but i do find the thought of a 'worship centre' where it is used once a week quite abhorrent. Cheers Hamo G’day Bill

This post actually had about another 60 comments which gave clarity to the questions you were asking – but in transferring hosting they were all lost.

Oddly enough I wrote a post last night that may clarify my understanding on some of what you ask.

A couple of other thoughts:

It was intentionally polemic as it was written originally for a debate. I have caricatured somewhat for the sake of getting an argument going :)

To answer your questions:

Q: Why can’t the church be both attractational and incarnational at the same time?

A: See my post from last night (written before your comment oddly enough)

Q: Isnt there the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal son?

A: Yes, but I don’t think the father set out to make ‘home’ as sexy as possible to win the son back home.

Q: And how can people be sent if there is no place for them to gather in twos or threes?

A: I agree with the need to gather – no argument there at all. It just doesn’t need to take a specific form.

Q: Or is as simple as saying “as long as you dont have a building and walk and live among the community you are incarnational?

A: No – I think that would be a caricature the other way!

Q: Where is the sustainability financiall in that kind of set up? or are you advocating that all clergy should be bi-vocational, or that we do away with clergy altogether?

A: Complex question. I prefer bivoc approaches to ministry these days, but i appreciate some people are called and required to serve full time vocationally. Having seen the view from both sides of the fence I like the bivoc persepective better – but it is a difficult balancing act.

Q: Before pastors of churches start buying into such theology they better know the consequences. Better yet, are you a pastor of a church that has a building?

A: I have a building. It is my home. Seriously – that is a building and it is adequate to the task before us. Maybe one day I will again work for a church that has a dedicated building, but i do find the thought of a ‘worship centre’ where it is used once a week quite abhorrent.

Cheers

Hamo

]]> By: Bill Easum http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-208114 Bill Easum Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:17:17 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-208114 Great article. I just think it misses the point of the both/and character of the postmodern world. Why can't the church be both attractational and incarnational at the same time? Isnt there the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal son? And how can people be sent if there is no place for them to gather in twos or threes? Or is as simple as saying "as long as you dont have a building and walk and live among the community you are incarnational? Where is the sustainability financiall in that kind of set up? or are you advocating that all clergy should be bi-vocational, or that we do away with clergy altogether? Before pastors of churches start buying into such theology they better know the consequences. Better yet, are you a pastor of a church that has a building? Im not trying to be nasty here, just asking the obvious questions that no one seems to be asking. Bill Great article. I just think it misses the point of the both/and character of the postmodern world. Why can’t the church be both attractational and incarnational at the same time? Isnt there the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal son? And how can people be sent if there is no place for them to gather in twos or threes? Or is as simple as saying “as long as you dont have a building and walk and live among the community you are incarnational? Where is the sustainability financiall in that kind of set up? or are you advocating that all clergy should be bi-vocational, or that we do away with clergy altogether? Before pastors of churches start buying into such theology they better know the consequences. Better yet, are you a pastor of a church that has a building?
Im not trying to be nasty here, just asking the obvious questions that no one seems to be asking.
Bill

]]> By: Attractional Versus Missional Church | Kouya Chronicle http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-202549 Attractional Versus Missional Church | Kouya Chronicle Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:44:26 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-202549 [...] a good point to remind you of Hamo’s excellent blog post on the same subject. You can find it here. Bookmark and Share: sociallist_5b899386_url = 'http://www.kouya.net/?p=1204'; [...] [...] a good point to remind you of Hamo’s excellent blog post on the same subject. You can find it here. Bookmark and Share: sociallist_5b899386_url = ‘http://www.kouya.net/?p=1204′; [...]

]]> By: Total Church 11 « fresh expressions… http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-198396 Total Church 11 « fresh expressions… Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:27:25 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-198396 [...] missional church circles of late about the concepts of attractional and incarnational church. (e.g. see this post)  When I typed “Attractional” + “Incarnational” into Google what amazed me [...] [...] missional church circles of late about the concepts of attractional and incarnational church. (e.g. see this post)  When I typed “Attractional” + “Incarnational” into Google what amazed me [...]

]]> By: Resources for Some Friends: | Kouya Chronicle http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-183016 Resources for Some Friends: | Kouya Chronicle Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:15:57 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-183016 [...] me, one of the key papers on this is Hamo’s article Incarnational V Attractional Mission. The group have already read the Shaping of Things To Come, so no need to recommend that, but Mike [...] [...] me, one of the key papers on this is Hamo’s article Incarnational V Attractional Mission. The group have already read the Shaping of Things To Come, so no need to recommend that, but Mike [...]

]]> By: Hamo Steps Down | Kouya Chronicle http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-182973 Hamo Steps Down | Kouya Chronicle Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:30:44 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-182973 [...] case it gets lost over the years, Hamo’s post on  Incarnational versus Attractional mission is one of the best things I’ve ever read on how churches should go about mission. It’s [...] [...] case it gets lost over the years, Hamo’s post on  Incarnational versus Attractional mission is one of the best things I’ve ever read on how churches should go about mission. It’s [...]

]]> By: the 7 | relevintage http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-161109 the 7 | relevintage Sat, 17 May 2008 02:26:36 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-161109 [...] is almost three years old, but the Tall Skinny one linked to it recently and I thought it was an insightful blog entry on the debate about attractional/incarnational [...] [...] is almost three years old, but the Tall Skinny one linked to it recently and I thought it was an insightful blog entry on the debate about attractional/incarnational [...]

]]> By: Rob Stevens http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-108738 Rob Stevens Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:42:03 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-108738 Sorry for butting in ... I agree ... but perhaps what is more pertinent to the church that is seeking a way forward in the post-Christian context is, what it means to be and how we go about the forming up of 'indigenous communities of faith that reflect the specific context'. How do we wrench from our patterns, structures and mind sets about church, those things that Christendom has imbued in and around us? How do we authenticly reflect our specific context in our faith forming communities? Blessings Rob Sorry for butting in … I agree … but perhaps what is more pertinent to the church that is seeking a way forward in the post-Christian context is, what it means to be and how we go about the forming up of ‘indigenous communities of faith that reflect the specific context’.

How do we wrench from our patterns, structures and mind sets about church, those things that Christendom has imbued in and around us?

How do we authenticly reflect our specific context in our faith forming communities?
Blessings
Rob

]]> By: the rev http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html/comment-page-1#comment-89705 the rev Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:05:14 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2005/08/incarnational-v-attractional-mission.html#comment-89705 Doesn't punter technically mean someone who makes a bet on something? sorry still trying to get my head around your language. rev Doesn’t punter technically mean someone who makes a bet on something? sorry still trying to get my head around your language.

rev

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