Comments on: Brian McLaren’s new book http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:43:17 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: otherendup http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-81383 otherendup Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:44:08 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-81383 found this at the churches of christ WA blog... Stephen Curkpatrick here with a brief reflection that may be useful for congregation ..... "Christians are often surrounded by diverse religious beliefs and practices. This is not new. Christians are also in various forms of evangelical dialogue within human culture. This dialogue is about good news. Its expressions are as varied as human needs and paths of life, while the good news relates to a shared reality for all humans—each person is unique and living with a horizon of death with its subtle impact on life. The good news of God’s demonstrative love in Jesus Christ invokes dialogue with any person, whatever their cultural or religious allegiances. This may occur in deeds that are experienced as good news, which is later declared and heard in words; it may occur in words that enlighten the desire for good news, leading to transformation of a person’s deeds. However it begins and with whatever words and deeds it is expressed, evangelical dialogue transcends culture and religion as good news that God, in the initiative of disclosure and love, invites every person into a communion of grace and life. Jesus Christ is the focus of this disclosure; the Holy Spirit is its transforming possibility for any person. In reality, evangelical dialogue is not between Christian faith and any religion but between the gospel of God and human beings." found this at the churches of christ WA blog…

Stephen Curkpatrick here with a brief reflection that may be useful for congregation …..

“Christians are often surrounded by diverse religious beliefs and practices. This is not new. Christians are also in various forms of evangelical dialogue within human culture. This dialogue is about good news. Its expressions are as varied as human needs and paths of life, while the good news relates to a shared reality for all humans—each person is unique and living with a horizon of death with its subtle impact on life.
The good news of God’s demonstrative love in Jesus Christ invokes dialogue with any person, whatever their cultural or religious allegiances. This may occur in deeds that are experienced as good news, which is later declared and heard in words; it may occur in words that enlighten the desire for good news, leading to transformation of a person’s deeds.
However it begins and with whatever words and deeds it is expressed, evangelical dialogue transcends culture and religion as good news that God, in the initiative of disclosure and love, invites every person into a communion of grace and life. Jesus Christ is the focus of this disclosure; the Holy Spirit is its transforming possibility for any person.
In reality, evangelical dialogue is not between Christian faith and any religion but between the gospel of God and human beings.”

]]> By: Jarrod McKenna http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80755 Jarrod McKenna Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:29:53 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80755 Lance you wrote" “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Apparently Jesus didn’t believe that all roads lead to life in abundance." I totally agree with you here. What's interesting for us is to look at this in the context of Matthew's gospel. What has Matthew just spent 3 chapters saying that Jesus is saying is the "narrow road"? What are the things we would do if we were on it? I really love that you keep bringing us back to Scripture. I think if we can be brave enough to read it in context it has the power to take us beyond "verse wars". Lance you wrote” “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Apparently Jesus didn’t believe that all roads lead to life in abundance.”

I totally agree with you here. What’s interesting for us is to look at this in the context of Matthew’s gospel. What has Matthew just spent 3 chapters saying that Jesus is saying is the “narrow road”? What are the things we would do if we were on it? I really love that you keep bringing us back to Scripture. I think if we can be brave enough to read it in context it has the power to take us beyond “verse wars”.

]]> By: otherendup http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80745 otherendup Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:41:51 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80745 these other "voices" that I'm bringing into the dialogue seem to better capture my thoughts, in a way that i often can't construct faithfully through my own language. And I thought they might be of interest to others too ;-) matt these other “voices” that I’m bringing into the dialogue seem to better capture my thoughts, in a way that i often can’t construct faithfully through my own language. And I thought they might be of interest to others too ;-)
matt

]]> By: otherendup http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80744 otherendup Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:38:34 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80744 "...i blurted out that i thought the notion of evangelical identity was a non issue, an issue from a bygone era, a defensive posture and something i didn't relate to even though i appreciate the heritage i have. it's about being part of a tribe. i said that for me being a disciple of christ in the global and historical body of christ was enough. i didn't need or relate to the narrower construct. and something i have learned through cms is that we really only know who christ is as we see his many faces and representations round the world. so rather than defending ourselves from others as we know what's right (or think we do!) we should be celebrating the diversity and richness they bring to the table. the take on truth that evangelicalism has had really doesn't seem to respond well to postmodern insights of our embeddedness that requires minimally humility about truth claims. even something like penal substitution that evangelicals get so hot and bothered about is a western understanding of the cross shaped by our context. i read a chapter recently in a book from a missionary in japan who pointed out that the legal substitution makes no sense in shame based cultures and they have to read or open up the meaning of christ's death in very different ways. as you can imagine that was an interesting start! of course part of the debate is about language - what do we mean by evangelical and some people want to reclaim or reform it? but for me it's a term whose shelf life has run out as is the term liberal for similar reasons. and i'm not even post evangelical because i don't even construct identity in relation to it..." from jonny baker's blog yesterday (http://jonnybaker.blogs.com/jonnybaker/2007/09/on-evangelical-.html) “…i blurted out that i thought the notion of evangelical identity was a non issue, an issue from a bygone era, a defensive posture and something i didn’t relate to even though i appreciate the heritage i have. it’s about being part of a tribe. i said that for me being a disciple of christ in the global and historical body of christ was enough. i didn’t need or relate to the narrower construct. and something i have learned through cms is that we really only know who christ is as we see his many faces and representations round the world. so rather than defending ourselves from others as we know what’s right (or think we do!) we should be celebrating the diversity and richness they bring to the table. the take on truth that evangelicalism has had really doesn’t seem to respond well to postmodern insights of our embeddedness that requires minimally humility about truth claims. even something like penal substitution that evangelicals get so hot and bothered about is a western understanding of the cross shaped by our context. i read a chapter recently in a book from a missionary in japan who pointed out that the legal substitution makes no sense in shame based cultures and they have to read or open up the meaning of christ’s death in very different ways. as you can imagine that was an interesting start! of course part of the debate is about language – what do we mean by evangelical and some people want to reclaim or reform it? but for me it’s a term whose shelf life has run out as is the term liberal for similar reasons. and i’m not even post evangelical because i don’t even construct identity in relation to it…”

from jonny baker’s blog yesterday (http://jonnybaker.blogs.com/jonnybaker/2007/09/on-evangelical-.html)

]]> By: Lance Mac http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80571 Lance Mac Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:49:40 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80571 Correction, "I am only interested in disciple making as Jesus taught." Correction, “I am only interested in disciple making as Jesus taught.”

]]> By: Lance Mac http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80570 Lance Mac Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:48:12 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80570 Fair point, Hamo. I suppose we are wrestling here. But, for the wrestling to produce blessing, we must wrestle within certain boundaries. In seeking, we must acknowledge what God has allowed us to find. I must believe that God is who he said he is. I must believe that Jesus is who he said he is. And, since I was not an eyewitness to these claims of word and deed, I must believe that those claims are recorded in "God's Word" historically and accurately. Otherwise I'm guessing more than I should and that 's like wrestling someone who poured baby oil all over himself. otherendup, please notice that I said "our" efforts in reference to experimental efforts. I am not interested in returning to "modern western interpretation". I am only disciple making as Jesus taught. I also appreciate your reference to Shekinah. But, isn't our tasks as Jesus followers not just settling to find the shards but to help put the shards together as well? In response to your quote on fundamentalism, I quote Jesus, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Apparently Jesus didn't believe that all roads lead to life in abundance. There are fundamentals to learn. I guess the rub is which are fundamentals and which are not. Fair point, Hamo. I suppose we are wrestling here. But, for the wrestling to produce blessing, we must wrestle within certain boundaries.

In seeking, we must acknowledge what God has allowed us to find. I must believe that God is who he said he is. I must believe that Jesus is who he said he is. And, since I was not an eyewitness to these claims of word and deed, I must believe that those claims are recorded in “God’s Word” historically and accurately. Otherwise I’m guessing more than I should and that ’s like wrestling someone who poured baby oil all over himself.

otherendup, please notice that I said “our” efforts in reference to experimental efforts. I am not interested in returning to “modern western interpretation”. I am only disciple making as Jesus taught.

I also appreciate your reference to Shekinah. But, isn’t our tasks as Jesus followers not just settling to find the shards but to help put the shards together as well?

In response to your quote on fundamentalism, I quote Jesus, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Apparently Jesus didn’t believe that all roads lead to life in abundance. There are fundamentals to learn. I guess the rub is which are fundamentals and which are not.

]]> By: otherendup http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80559 otherendup Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:02:00 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80559 "Very briefly, fundamentalism can be understood as a particular way of believing one's beliefs rather than referring to the actual content of one's beliefs. It can be described as holding a belief system in such a way that it mutually excludes all other systems, rejecting other views in direct proportion to how much they differ from one's own. In contrast, the a/theistic approach can be seen as a form of disbelieving what one believes, or rather, believing in God while remaining dubious concerning what one believes about God (a distinction that fundamentalism is unable to maintain)..." Rollins, P. (2006). How (not) to speak of God. p. 26 “Very briefly, fundamentalism can be understood as a particular way of believing one’s beliefs rather than referring to the actual content of one’s beliefs. It can be described as holding a belief system in such a way that it mutually excludes all other systems, rejecting other views in direct proportion to how much they differ from one’s own. In contrast, the a/theistic approach can be seen as a form of disbelieving what one believes, or rather, believing in God while remaining dubious concerning what one believes about God (a distinction that fundamentalism is unable to maintain)…”

Rollins, P. (2006). How (not) to speak of God. p. 26

]]> By: Jarrod McKenna http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80394 Jarrod McKenna Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:23:58 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80394 Amen to that Grendal! It’s an amazing when people not just talk about the gospel but do it in ways that reflect the gospel. Where grace, mercy, nonviolence, humility and love are not just ideas about Jesus but palatable experiences of him. Matt I too think this is beautiful. You’ve managed to name the uniqueness, yet the unmonopolisability (Did I just invent a word? ;)), of the God revealed in Jesus. Lets pray that our lives will embody the beauty that’s felt in Matt’s words. This beauty that through Jesus will one day flood all of creation. Amen to that Grendal!
It’s an amazing when people not just talk about the gospel but do it in ways that reflect the gospel. Where grace, mercy, nonviolence, humility and love are not just ideas about Jesus but palatable experiences of him.
Matt I too think this is beautiful. You’ve managed to name the uniqueness, yet the unmonopolisability (Did I just invent a word? ;) ), of the God revealed in Jesus. Lets pray that our lives will embody the beauty that’s felt in Matt’s words. This beauty that through Jesus will one day flood all of creation.

]]> By: Grendel http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80371 Grendel Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:06:14 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80371 "I think this has more to do with recognising God in the shards of his glory that are scattered throughout all of creation, including other people, other theologies and other religions. " Matt, I think that is one of the most profoundly beautiful expressions of Christianity I have ever read. “I think this has more to do with recognising God in the shards of his glory that are scattered throughout all of creation, including other people, other theologies and other religions. ”

Matt, I think that is one of the most profoundly beautiful expressions of Christianity I have ever read.

]]> By: otherendup http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html/comment-page-1#comment-80339 otherendup Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:06:13 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/09/brian-mclarens-new-book.html#comment-80339 last comment should read... "...the limitations of our language and our INability to comprehend God..." ;-) last comment should read…

“…the limitations of our language and our INability to comprehend God…” ;-)

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