Comments on: Goodnews to all of creation? http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:43:17 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Jarrod McKenna http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-91265 Jarrod McKenna Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:31:33 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-91265 Lance your last sentence is beautiful. Wonderful! Amen! Amen!! I’m not sure how I’ve communicated that we need only care about one issue but this is not what I mean at all. You know the pain I’ve experienced and lengths I’ve gone to respond to the issue of abortion with the costly grace that reflects the kingdom to both mother and unborn child. Again can I recommend Dr. Glen Stassen from Fuller theological seminary in how to respond to these issues in transformative ways. I really appreciate your integrity with your consistent pro-life stance (not just for the unborn but against the killing of the living as well) and therefore being against all wars. And I realise how hard that must be to hold that position amongst people on the right who strongly disagree with you (sadly even Christians). Please know I’m holding tensions of not fitting the mould because rejecting all forms of violence as well. Lance your last sentence is beautiful. Wonderful! Amen! Amen!! I’m not sure how I’ve communicated that we need only care about one issue but this is not what I mean at all. You know the pain I’ve experienced and lengths I’ve gone to respond to the issue of abortion with the costly grace that reflects the kingdom to both mother and unborn child. Again can I recommend Dr. Glen Stassen from Fuller theological seminary in how to respond to these issues in transformative ways. I really appreciate your integrity with your consistent pro-life stance (not just for the unborn but against the killing of the living as well) and therefore being against all wars. And I realise how hard that must be to hold that position amongst people on the right who strongly disagree with you (sadly even Christians). Please know I’m holding tensions of not fitting the mould because rejecting all forms of violence as well.

]]> By: Lance Mac http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-91251 Lance Mac Fri, 02 Nov 2007 06:34:25 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-91251 (My wife said, "There is a difference between the current unborn and the yet-to-be-conceived. The unborn have flesh, blood, and beating hearts that are growing inside their mother's womb.") I don't understand your logic, Jarrod. To say that we disregard the slaughter of children in order to protect future generations is like saying we need to slice off our arm to save our hand. And, I'm certainly not saying that we trash the environment in order to stop the slaughter of children. That is absurd. One cause is not contradictory to the other, but your posts and arguments certainly lead me to the conclusion that you think they are contradictory. The fig tree prophecies point to a proper understanding of how the environment is affected by our disobedience to God. A right or wrong relationship with God as demonstrated by our right or wrong relationship with each other has direct consequences for all of creation. When we passively or actively support any kind of evil, whether it is lesser or not, and passively or actively support any kind of violence against the innocent, whether sexual abuse, killing children, or bombing etc... it has profound consequences on all of creation. (My wife said, “There is a difference between the current unborn and the yet-to-be-conceived. The unborn have flesh, blood, and beating hearts that are growing inside their mother’s womb.”)

I don’t understand your logic, Jarrod. To say that we disregard the slaughter of children in order to protect future generations is like saying we need to slice off our arm to save our hand.

And, I’m certainly not saying that we trash the environment in order to stop the slaughter of children. That is absurd. One cause is not contradictory to the other, but your posts and arguments certainly lead me to the conclusion that you think they are contradictory.

The fig tree prophecies point to a proper understanding of how the environment is affected by our disobedience to God. A right or wrong relationship with God as demonstrated by our right or wrong relationship with each other has direct consequences for all of creation. When we passively or actively support any kind of evil, whether it is lesser or not, and passively or actively support any kind of violence against the innocent, whether sexual abuse, killing children, or bombing etc… it has profound consequences on all of creation.

]]> By: mark E http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-91089 mark E Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:01:10 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-91089 I believe my first responsibility as a Christian is to be a father and priest of my family, and to disciple my kids....this is perectly scriptural to me.......but it did not become clear until I had kids. Holding my son for the first time was the single most spiritual moment of my life, and when God spoke to me in an amazing way. Seeing good friends go through divorce is when I have most had my heart broken. (apparently God hates it too) I appreciate your perspective, and your passion comes through, and while our views might be tempered (iron sharpens iron etc) your passion for the issues you have is most likely given to you by God, my passions by the same person. btw Lances comment re fig is very funny :) I can just imagine Bob Brown running in and trying to protect the tree :) I believe my first responsibility as a Christian is to be a father and priest of my family, and to disciple my kids….this is perectly scriptural to me…….but it did not become clear until I had kids. Holding my son for the first time was the single most spiritual moment of my life, and when God spoke to me in an amazing way.

Seeing good friends go through divorce is when I have most had my heart broken. (apparently God hates it too)

I appreciate your perspective, and your passion comes through, and while our views might be tempered (iron sharpens iron etc) your passion for the issues you have is most likely given to you by God, my passions by the same person.

btw Lances comment re fig is very funny :) I can just imagine Bob Brown running in and trying to protect the tree :)

]]> By: Jarrod McKenna http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-91081 Jarrod McKenna Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:35:54 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-91081 Mark, One of the Senior Pastors at Riverview talks openly about why he votes for the Greens because he is a Christian. When we catch up I’d be happy to talk about why I’ve changed my position from not voting at all because I didn’t want to be blessing that which I didn’t agree with to now vote for the Greens as the lesser of evils I have chosen (after a lot of research into the policies of the different parties). But as Ammon Henacy would remind us, “When choosing the lesser of two evils many forget they still choose evil”. That link Mark was very encouraging thanks. Is this a growing thing? Did you see this quote from Bill Hybels recently in the NY Times (thought it was interesting), “The quickness to arms, the quickness to invade, I think that caused a kind of desertion of what has been known as the Christian right.” On "family", I think we must make sure that God’s priorities aren’t trumped by the “Christian value of families”. It’s worth asking ourselves if our understanding of “family” are in keeping with the early church (and closed nuclear family isn't). It’s worth all of us doing a study of “oikos”. And looking at Jesus’ own comment on family are also challenging. :) “Family First” (as a term) was not what was first for the early Church, Jesus was. Lance where you serious or kidding about your last questions with the fig and animals in the temple? The fig can only be understood in the prophetic tradition of the Old Testament (not that I was suggesting that you were arguing against an arching theme of the whole bible with one verse taken out of context but it read like that a bit) and the animals where in the temple to be slaughtered! Jesus actions are the first recorded incident of animal liberation. :) If we care about unborn children we must care about global warming which is the biggest threat to the yet to be born for generations to come. If we haven't come to terms with that yet we haven't yet honestly faced the realities of this issue. Mark,
One of the Senior Pastors at Riverview talks openly about why he votes for the Greens because he is a Christian. When we catch up I’d be happy to talk about why I’ve changed my position from not voting at all because I didn’t want to be blessing that which I didn’t agree with to now vote for the Greens as the lesser of evils I have chosen (after a lot of research into the policies of the different parties). But as Ammon Henacy would remind us, “When choosing the lesser of two evils many forget they still choose evil”.

That link Mark was very encouraging thanks. Is this a growing thing?

Did you see this quote from Bill Hybels recently in the NY Times (thought it was interesting),
“The quickness to arms, the quickness to invade, I think that caused a kind of desertion of what has been known as the Christian right.”

On “family”, I think we must make sure that God’s priorities aren’t trumped by the “Christian value of families”. It’s worth asking ourselves if our understanding of “family” are in keeping with the early church (and closed nuclear family isn’t). It’s worth all of us doing a study of “oikos”. And looking at Jesus’ own comment on family are also challenging. :) “Family First” (as a term) was not what was first for the early Church, Jesus was.

Lance where you serious or kidding about your last questions with the fig and animals in the temple? The fig can only be understood in the prophetic tradition of the Old Testament (not that I was suggesting that you were arguing against an arching theme of the whole bible with one verse taken out of context but it read like that a bit) and the animals where in the temple to be slaughtered! Jesus actions are the first recorded incident of animal liberation. :)

If we care about unborn children we must care about global warming which is the biggest threat to the yet to be born for generations to come. If we haven’t come to terms with that yet we haven’t yet honestly faced the realities of this issue.

]]> By: mark E http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-91002 mark E Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:20:15 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-91002 Lance, you make some good points. I think the answer is in celebrating what other churches are doing, but not necesarily doing them ourselves. In my view we have so fractured the church that we are no longer seeing something that J Johns said. "I am part of the biggest movement in the world". We all are. What does happen though...is that sometimes we are so focused on our particular gift/calling that we fail to see that possible we have pushed it to far in our theological thinking, or are so immersed in it, that we cannot see the good that others are doing in different areas. This is why I cant understand why people could possibly vote for the Greens...while on one hand many would say they have got their environmental policies right...they are diametrically opposed to (without wanting to sound all fundry right wingy) Christian family values. In that spirit, I celebrate what this church is doing and saying, it is making me reevaluate some of my own thoughts. http://mjuniting.org.au/art-template-normal.asp?CID=89&AID=461 Lance, you make some good points. I think the answer is in celebrating what other churches are doing, but not necesarily doing them ourselves. In my view we have so fractured the church that we are no longer seeing something that J Johns said. “I am part of the biggest movement in the world”. We all are. What does happen though…is that sometimes we are so focused on our particular gift/calling that we fail to see that possible we have pushed it to far in our theological thinking, or are so immersed in it, that we cannot see the good that others are doing in different areas.

This is why I cant understand why people could possibly vote for the Greens…while on one hand many would say they have got their environmental policies right…they are diametrically opposed to (without wanting to sound all fundry right wingy) Christian family values.

In that spirit, I celebrate what this church is doing and saying, it is making me reevaluate some of my own thoughts.
http://mjuniting.org.au/art-template-normal.asp?CID=89&AID=461

]]> By: Lance Mac http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-90980 Lance Mac Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:31:34 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-90980 It's a nice thought to grow your own food, but if we all went back to subsistence farming, we wouldn't be in a position to feed people suffering through drought and famine. Jesus is indeed good news for all creation. And maybe it's the political season, but I don't understand why we frame the areas that we are passionate about as contradictory to one another. Is it really abortion vs. global warming? Is it really exploitation of the environment vs. exploitation of people? Is it really one or another? Well, who can live in a way that perfectly addresses every problem in this fallen world? Jesus did. That's why some of us have chosen to follow him, right? We follow a Lord who taught us to be careful of walking so intently to our preferred, called-to activity that we disregard the naked, beaten man lying at the side of the road. I would feel very uncomfortable if I was running so fast to various meetings about global warming that I would ignore the child who is not safe in their mother's womb, the woman who is in desperate need in a foreign land, the sexually abused and confused, the drug addicted, etc... Just an aside, Jesus does seem to challenge our sensibilities. How do people solely devoted to being green feel when Jesus withered the fig tree? How about when he used a whip to drive the moneychangers and their animals out of the temple? It’s a nice thought to grow your own food, but if we all went back to subsistence farming, we wouldn’t be in a position to feed people suffering through drought and famine.

Jesus is indeed good news for all creation. And maybe it’s the political season, but I don’t understand why we frame the areas that we are passionate about as contradictory to one another. Is it really abortion vs. global warming? Is it really exploitation of the environment vs. exploitation of people? Is it really one or another?

Well, who can live in a way that perfectly addresses every problem in this fallen world? Jesus did. That’s why some of us have chosen to follow him, right?

We follow a Lord who taught us to be careful of walking so intently to our preferred, called-to activity that we disregard the naked, beaten man lying at the side of the road. I would feel very uncomfortable if I was running so fast to various meetings about global warming that I would ignore the child who is not safe in their mother’s womb, the woman who is in desperate need in a foreign land, the sexually abused and confused, the drug addicted, etc…

Just an aside, Jesus does seem to challenge our sensibilities. How do people solely devoted to being green feel when Jesus withered the fig tree? How about when he used a whip to drive the moneychangers and their animals out of the temple?

]]> By: Ken Zeleny http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-90928 Ken Zeleny Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:11:45 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-90928 I so appreciate your words. There are so many simple ways to make a difference in this world. I love the idea of growing own's veggies and fruits. As a child I grew up entirely on our family's fruit and vegetables taken directly from our backyard. Nothing could be better! I so appreciate your words. There are so many simple ways to make a difference in this world. I love the idea of growing own’s veggies and fruits. As a child I grew up entirely on our family’s fruit and vegetables taken directly from our backyard. Nothing could be better!

]]> By: Mark E http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-90782 Mark E Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:33:42 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-90782 2nd finallly..... :) http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1 2nd finallly….. :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

]]> By: Mark E http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-90638 Mark E Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:44:17 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-90638 and finally..that is a brilliant interview with J Matthew. and finally..that is a brilliant interview with J Matthew.

]]> By: Mark E http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html/comment-page-1#comment-90631 Mark E Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:30:52 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2007/10/goodnews-to-all-of-creation.html#comment-90631 and Mark E I agree - family, friends and their relationship with Christ is important .....it makes no sense for us to do these things for our individual children, while simultaneously doing things underminning the world in which our children will be living 50 years from now and Mark R...I agree with that, wholeheatedly..that makes a lot of sense. and Mark E I agree – family, friends and their relationship with Christ is important …..it makes no sense for us to do these things for our individual children, while simultaneously doing things underminning the world in which our children will be living 50 years from now

and Mark R…I agree with that, wholeheatedly..that makes a lot of sense.

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