I would have to say that the interviewer is missing the point (perhaps maliciously so): the minor hypocrisy of the protester is not really relevant to the evils of Nike shoe company practices. It’s like criticising Al Gore for flying: it’s a cheap shot.

I find that Jesus words are not immobilising ideals that we can never reach (as some Christians have taught) but practical actions for the transformation of all involved.
What’s your take?

I’d have preferred it if Jesus had said “Judge not without also judging yourself.” Socrates also talked about the virtues of self-reflexiveness, and fallibilism has been a central pillar of modern science and the critical thinking tradition.

But if a person judges without practising self-criticism, all it means is that he or she is a jerk. It doesn’t make the judgement any less sound.

I really understand that. But I think there is another temptation that I often see in activist circles where people point fingers at everyone else without first addressing our participation in those systems that we are ‘against’. I’ll never forget seeing someone interviewed at a globalisation protest where they where declaring the evils of Nike shoe companies practices. The camera scanned down to look at his shoes and then the interviewer asked him, “So why are you wearing Nike shoes?”

Are attitudes towards those who are ‘other’ (on the other side of an argument, or parliament, or the world or whatever) change dramatically when we realise our solidarity in hypocrisy. There is no ‘us’ and ‘them’ there’s just us. So instead of thinking change needs to happen just for those we are opposed to, we realise that transformation is needed for us both. What ya reckon?

What Jesus says to me I find amazing:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s or sister’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your sister’s or brother’s eye.”

I find that Jesus words are not immobilising ideals that we can never reach (as some Christians have taught) but practical actions for the transformation of all involved.
What’s your take?

There’s a point at which this becomes paralysing, though. You ought to be able to challenge those things with which you disagree (say, for example, female genital mutilation) while at the same time acknowledging your own fallibility–otherwise, it would not be possible to challenge anything at all.

If you’re talking about my writing I’m talking here about what’s happening in America because it has such a huge impact on Australia. As Scotty in all his expereince said;

“I see flashes of this very thing in churches and youth rallies here in Perth!”

Glad to have you apart of the journey Mark. We’ll have to hangout next time I’m doing workshops or preaching in Albany

AV it’s great having another person who isn’t Christian getting in on the conversation. I agree that it is very serious. I’m sorry if that didn’t come across in the post. The point of Jesus teaching on removing the log is to fist get yourself right so you can challenge things (Gandhi is a great example of this).

Ha! both families in that film had Lord of the Rings on their bookshelves/kitchen tables at points in the footage….Ohhhh so Wizards created by the guy who helped to ‘convert’ CS Lewis are fine, even if he was a (shock HORROR…) Roman Catholic!

Maybe it’s ok ‘coz their Christian bookstores have sold them Bible Studies on how to read the Lord of the Rings as a home group, managing to dilute all the talk of ‘magic’ into Christian allegory….but Gay Dumbledore is just too queer to be saved….what a surprise.

The scariest thing is the indoctrination of Children into their parents twisted views…but it happens all over the planet from Kansas to the Gaza Strip, so I have decided the only way to combat this is to become a non violence advocating Clown and I shall spread my message of peace and love through balloon animals and (vegan) cream pies….mwah ha ha.

Seriously though, do we just have to ‘trust’ that justice will be served to hate-mongers like this, or take action and do what a group of Bikers in the US did in response to the hate fueled and demented ‘Westboro Baptist Church’ (for those of you who are unaware of them, see: http://www.godhatesfags.com).

So the Westboro Baptists have taken it upon themselves to turn up to soldiers funerals to scream at grieving families that their deceased relative is now burning in hell, because they are fighting in a ‘fag’ war….So this group of bikers, in an effort to protect the grieving families, turn up to the funeral of soldier, and line the entire route on the road side between the route of the hearse and the protesting so called ‘Christians’ and they play a funeral march on bagpipes! This audibly drowning out the pitiful cries of the protesters with the drone of a uniquely Scottish flavour….now that’s creative non-violent action (though I’ll dare say there might have been a few scuffles somewhere along the route…)

Anyhow, the point remains; someone who is convinced that they are ridding the world of evil, and so sure that, as the Nazi’s officers belt buckles proclaimed in WWII, ; “God is With Us.”….well they’re only gonna be drowned out by bagpipes for so long you know?

The outcome of the discussion was a bunch of people who were apologetic (they did not realise there was a Christian in their midst), and open to the thought that what they see in the media with the fundamentalist right-wingers is not a true representation of the church.

The point? magic simplicities will save us from too much ambiguity and too much uncertainty, so to sweep away this doubt and uncertainty give people a faith that feels like certainty – I know these things, because I have traveled on this road but have discovered that doubt is both the essence and engine of my faith.

Jarrod an aside, though I do not take on board all you write, be assured that it is great stuff and forms the framework for many a homegroup here in Albany – bless you brother and a great big hug.