Comments on: The Process of Untransformation http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:43:17 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Gav http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-124519 Gav Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:24:36 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-124519 illuimating blindspots and tearing down strong holds of our culture is exhausting...I just taught on the 4th commandment Legalism or lawlessness which blindspot do you want to pick? Sunday sport or silent meditation? Fight the good fight? Gav illuimating blindspots and tearing down strong holds of our culture is exhausting…I just taught on the 4th commandment Legalism or lawlessness which blindspot do you want to pick?
Sunday sport or silent meditation? Fight the good fight? Gav

]]> By: Sojourner http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-124060 Sojourner Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:20:44 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-124060 The balance between all of the aspects mentioned so far is learning to love one another as Christ loved us and allow that love to motivate us to do love in the world as Christ did. It is a hard thing,because some of us come to the doing first and some of us come to the loving first. Motivation involves the body, mind, and heart working out a sycrinization with the Holy Spirit. It shifts around at different times in our lives as we grow and are transformed by the Holy Spirit. The same applies to the Body of Christ on a macro level. It's a process of transformation and there is no perfect place only sanctification through Christ as we seek to do the will of God. The balance between all of the aspects mentioned so far is learning to love one another as Christ loved us and allow that love to motivate us to do love in the world as Christ did. It is a hard thing,because some of us come to the doing first and some of us come to the loving first. Motivation involves the body, mind, and heart working out a sycrinization with the Holy Spirit. It shifts around at different times in our lives as we grow and are transformed by the Holy Spirit. The same applies to the Body of Christ on a macro level. It’s a process of transformation and there is no perfect place only sanctification through Christ as we seek to do the will of God.

]]> By: Lesley http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123843 Lesley Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:17:05 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123843 Not only Calvin but the scriptures state man is totally sinful. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god. Can we choose to come to god? I would believe that only as he opens our eyes to see the truth, but we are not robots. To quote the words of a famous hymn: Long my imprisoned spirit lay Fast bound in sin and natures night Thine eye diffused a quickening ray I woke the dungeon flamed with light My chains fell off my heart was free I rose went forth and followed thee. May god alone recieve the glory for the salvation of man in what has been accomplished thru Jesus Christ his son. Not only Calvin but the scriptures state man is totally sinful. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god. Can we choose to come to god? I would believe that only as he opens our eyes to see the truth, but we are not robots. To quote the words of a famous hymn:

Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and natures night
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray
I woke the dungeon flamed with light
My chains fell off my heart was free
I rose went forth and followed thee.

May god alone recieve the glory for the salvation of man in what has been accomplished thru Jesus Christ his son.

]]> By: roo http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123812 roo Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:38:36 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123812 Calvin states humans are totally sinful, and unable to come to come to God of their own accord, Aminius states humans are stained by sin, but able to chose to come to God. When we start to hear of dependance upon the spirit, it is a calvinistic position, where we are unable to take any action for ourselves that leads towards salvation. If we say people are able to take steps themselves to become more Christlike, that is an Arminianistic position... I think :-) Calvin states humans are totally sinful, and unable to come to come to God of their own accord, Aminius states humans are stained by sin, but able to chose to come to God.

When we start to hear of dependance upon the spirit, it is a calvinistic position, where we are unable to take any action for ourselves that leads towards salvation. If we say people are able to take steps themselves to become more Christlike, that is an Arminianistic position…

I think :-)

]]> By: Lesley http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123805 Lesley Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:24:10 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123805 Steve, Glenno , sorry I am probably being a bit synical with my "perfect enviroment" . I guess my experience has been that people can say that they want to take what it means to be a body seriously but when it is lived out its perhaps too messy. Leaders say they want congregations to be open and honest until it happens. They dont want to hear about anything your not happy about or dont agree with and when they do listen they will often try to get you to see that you dont really know what you are talking about, and you come away thinking why did I bother. The most comfortable place I have found to express myself is in my home group . We have been meeting for about 10 years and have become very open with each other where we do speak biblical truths into each others lives, its been a blessing. I know this kind of openess would freak some people out, perhaps thats why we dont attract a big crowd. I have been a christian for 20 years and have seen how speaking into peoples lives has become a thing of the past. Has christianity become more individual (as in I will do it my way) and less corporate(functioning as a body)? Roo, I think I am happy to let the holy spirit change me, through whatever means he wishes to use , trying to change myself has been impossible I need the savior. Steve, Glenno , sorry I am probably being a bit synical with my “perfect enviroment” . I guess my experience has been that people can say that they want to take what it means to be a body seriously but when it is lived out its perhaps too messy. Leaders say they want congregations to be open and honest until it happens. They dont want to hear about anything your not happy about or dont agree with and when they do listen they will often try to get you to see that you dont really know what you are talking about, and you come away thinking why did I bother. The most comfortable place I have found to express myself is in my home group . We have been meeting for about 10 years and have become very open with each other where we do speak biblical truths into each others lives, its been a blessing. I know this kind of openess would freak some people out, perhaps thats why we dont attract a big crowd. I have been a christian for 20 years and have seen how speaking into peoples lives has become a thing of the past. Has christianity become more individual (as in I will do it my way) and less corporate(functioning as a body)?

Roo, I think I am happy to let the holy spirit change me, through whatever means he wishes to use , trying to change myself has been impossible
I need the savior.

]]> By: steve mcalpine http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123758 steve mcalpine Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:36:00 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123758 It's not a case of looking for a perfect environment - it's a case of taking what it means to be the body seriously enough that we invite people to speak into our lives on a daily basis. To say it's about a perfect environment is an easy way to dismiss it as something unachievable. What I can say about my time in TCH was that it was a NORMATIVE experience to speak biblical truths into each other's lives during the ongoing stuff of life. That's a culture that, while hard to create, can be created. It’s not a case of looking for a perfect environment – it’s a case of taking what it means to be the body seriously enough that we invite people to speak into our lives on a daily basis. To say it’s about a perfect environment is an easy way to dismiss it as something unachievable. What I can say about my time in TCH was that it was a NORMATIVE experience to speak biblical truths into each other’s lives during the ongoing stuff of life. That’s a culture that, while hard to create, can be created.

]]> By: Glenno http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123748 Glenno Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:04:06 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123748 "When you find this perfect environment , please let me know" Too euphoric Lesley? Unrealistic? Hey Roo, not up with the ism's but isn't that saying the same thing? “When you find this perfect environment , please let me know”
Too euphoric Lesley? Unrealistic?
Hey Roo, not up with the ism’s but isn’t that saying the same thing?

]]> By: Sojourner http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123604 Sojourner Sat, 23 Feb 2008 15:32:08 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123604 First, I believe Church should not be about structure and configuration. She is the Bride of Christ and should be about love, passion, and commitment Unfortunately structure and configuration become necessary whenever humans gather together (you know for order, accountablity, and what not). We have forgotten how to love one another. But that is where the Holy Spirit comes in. I've been learning about Sternberg's love triangle and reading John's writings and trying to fit Sternberg's theory into the church as y'all have been discussing. Sternberg's theory says that Intimacy + Passion + Commitment = Consommate Love. If we apply this to individual Christians, individual churches, and the entire Body of Christ we might say that the transformed Body of Christ is in a state of Consommate Love. Meaning as the Bride she would be ready for her Groom. However, that time has not arrived. We still have lessons to learn. Some of us (and churches) are in various stages of learning how to love: Passion Alone = Infatuated Love Intimacy Alone = Liking Commitment Alone = Sterile Love Passion + Intimacy = Romantic Love Passion + Commitment = Fatuous Love Intimacy + commitment = Companionate Love We can only learn to love again through the Holy Spirit. Which brings me to my second point, teaching and learning. We have different learning styles. The teachers should take that into account and the learners need to be responsibile for understanding how we learn. I am a backward learner and I like to experience things first and then apply the labels (connect to the stories) I like interaction and I don't like setting in lecture without being able to say anything (sharing). I like to fully engage and experience a truth in order for it to become a part of my behavior. Sometimes that happens quickly, sometimes that happens over the span of many years! Finally, the structure and configuration must enter here and that will have to be figured out by church leaders through a loving relationship with the Holy Spirit, the individual Body of Christ, and the mission field in which they are called to serve. First, I believe Church should not be about structure and configuration. She is the Bride of Christ and should be about love, passion, and commitment

Unfortunately structure and configuration become necessary whenever humans gather together (you know for order, accountablity, and what not).
We have forgotten how to love one another. But that is where the Holy Spirit comes in.

I’ve been learning about Sternberg’s love triangle and reading John’s writings and trying to fit Sternberg’s theory into the church as y’all have been discussing. Sternberg’s theory says that Intimacy + Passion + Commitment = Consommate Love. If we apply this to individual Christians, individual churches, and the entire Body of Christ we might say that the transformed Body of Christ is in a state of Consommate Love. Meaning as the Bride she would be ready for her Groom. However, that time has not arrived. We still have lessons to learn. Some of us (and churches) are in various stages of learning how to love:
Passion Alone = Infatuated Love
Intimacy Alone = Liking
Commitment Alone = Sterile Love
Passion + Intimacy = Romantic Love
Passion + Commitment = Fatuous Love
Intimacy + commitment = Companionate Love

We can only learn to love again through the Holy Spirit.

Which brings me to my second point, teaching and learning. We have different learning styles. The teachers should take that into account and the learners need to be responsibile for understanding how we learn. I am a backward learner and I like to experience things first and then apply the labels (connect to the stories) I like interaction and I don’t like setting in lecture without being able to say anything (sharing). I like to fully engage and experience a truth in order for it to become a part of my behavior. Sometimes that happens quickly, sometimes that happens over the span of many years!

Finally, the structure and configuration must enter here and that will have to be figured out by church leaders through a loving relationship with the Holy Spirit, the individual Body of Christ, and the mission field in which they are called to serve.

]]> By: roo http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123590 roo Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:03:30 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123590 sounds like my favorite theological debate, Calvinism vs. Arminianism. To what extent do i let the spirit change me, and to what extent do i change myself? sounds like my favorite theological debate, Calvinism vs. Arminianism.

To what extent do i let the spirit change me, and to what extent do i change myself?

]]> By: Lesley http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html/comment-page-1#comment-123527 Lesley Sat, 23 Feb 2008 08:18:37 +0000 http://www.backyardmissionary.com/2008/02/the-process-of-untransformation.html#comment-123527 When you find this perfect environment , please let me know. The holy spirit might want to come along too. When you find this perfect environment , please let me know. The holy spirit might want to come along too.

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