I’m with Sojourner – I don’t understand what he’s trying to say in this one sentence. I’ve tried reading “The Cost of Discipleship” once, and got hung up after about 3 or 4 chapters. Maybe I don’t think deep enough.
Thanks, it makes more sense now. Do you think it is a skewed perspective or has the stratification of society seeped into the midst of the church. The Body of Christ should change society not the other way around.
I think its just another example of throwing stones to appeal to a growing group of people who like easy reasons to dismiss something.
The African, south american churches might like to address this comment. So might the hard working churches in Perth who reach out to the masses, and are comprised of very ordinary people.
I also believe that if you are to level this criticism at the church, you need to be aware that the gospel, by very virtue of its transformative power on someones life, is going to mean that they leave behind a lifestyle which is detrimental, and may contribute to their poverty. In no way am I endorsing the prosperity gospel but it is true that those who have found Christ, generally, work hard, pay their taxes and dont blow all their money on alcohol, drugs etc.
But I do think you need to give some context to that quote. Bonhoffer was a theologian in Nazi Germany, and speaking to the church of his day…and maybe he was speaking out about what would start to concern him greatly, its lack of prophetic witness in a country which in a few short years after writing this, would be complicit in its acceptance of Hitler!
I do think its untrue if you apply it to the church of today. Your original comment did not mention the Western Church.
But….I dont think it necesarily applies to the western church. Many of the Baptist Churches in WA are not middle class, some are. But surely that is because of their context?
I am not going to ask you to be specific, but what would the average wage be of people that are part of your church community?
At my church we have a very broad mix. But I could count the professionals on one hand…the tradesmen on two…and a whole heap of others.
I think such a statement, on a blog such as yours, is just too cliched. I would like you to add to it, be specific, and let us know what you are doing about it.
I hate that this comment makes so much sense…
and the two shall not be parted ….. but the gospel is more convincing if accompanied with an M16.
I don’t know what this comment means…..
I’m with Sojourner – I don’t understand what he’s trying to say in this one sentence. I’ve tried reading “The Cost of Discipleship” once, and got hung up after about 3 or 4 chapters. Maybe I don’t think deep enough.
Would somebody care to translate for us?
Ok – here’s my take
From the perspective of the working class, God seems to have thrown his hand in with the nice people of the middle class.
Christianity is a religion for the genteel and not for the earthy or rougher end of society.
By and large in the western world our churches are comprised of middle classers hence the ‘working’ are wondering where they fit.
And I guess Bonhoeffer’s point is to ask ‘how can this be?…’
Thanks, it makes more sense now. Do you think it is a skewed perspective or has the stratification of society seeped into the midst of the church. The Body of Christ should change society not the other way around.
I think its just another example of throwing stones to appeal to a growing group of people who like easy reasons to dismiss something.
The African, south american churches might like to address this comment. So might the hard working churches in Perth who reach out to the masses, and are comprised of very ordinary people.
I also believe that if you are to level this criticism at the church, you need to be aware that the gospel, by very virtue of its transformative power on someones life, is going to mean that they leave behind a lifestyle which is detrimental, and may contribute to their poverty. In no way am I endorsing the prosperity gospel but it is true that those who have found Christ, generally, work hard, pay their taxes and dont blow all their money on alcohol, drugs etc.
Hmmm.. didn’t realise I was ‘throwing stones’ here.
Sorry if you feel crticised by it Mark, as it was more of an observation that for western churches this is generally true statement.
Do you then see it as untrue? (as a general statement)
I dont feel criticised by it, no apology needed.
But I do think you need to give some context to that quote. Bonhoffer was a theologian in Nazi Germany, and speaking to the church of his day…and maybe he was speaking out about what would start to concern him greatly, its lack of prophetic witness in a country which in a few short years after writing this, would be complicit in its acceptance of Hitler!
I do think its untrue if you apply it to the church of today. Your original comment did not mention the Western Church.
But….I dont think it necesarily applies to the western church. Many of the Baptist Churches in WA are not middle class, some are. But surely that is because of their context?
I am not going to ask you to be specific, but what would the average wage be of people that are part of your church community?
At my church we have a very broad mix. But I could count the professionals on one hand…the tradesmen on two…and a whole heap of others.
I think such a statement, on a blog such as yours, is just too cliched. I would like you to add to it, be specific, and let us know what you are doing about it.
I like a contextless quote!
Much more provocative 🙂
What discussion would there be if we qualified everything?!
🙂