Just a few that I am pondering today…
> I enjoy my life as a part time church leader and part time blue collar worker as it keeps me well and truly earthed in the places ordinary people live, but… I also notice how hard it is for my head to engage more fully with the bigger picture church stuff and I am not sure what this means. Is this how it is meant to be?… Does this allow us to simply better function as a body or is this is going to be a problem?… I used to be a pretty creative thinker and regularly had new ideas flooding to mind, but I get the feeling that physical work and the subsequent tiredness has numbed that part of my brain.
> Because I am only officially employed 2 days a week there is clearly a limit to what can be achieved. As with most established churches, the Sunday gathering is currently our biggest single focus and while I am trying to limit the time it requires of me, I am also finding that a large portion of my paid time simply needs to be spent on this and the internal mechanisms of the church. I am pondering how I effectively lead people out of the buildings while investing most of my paid time within them…
> Compounding that question… In 2 weeks we have to exit the room we meet in for our Sunday gatherings. It is simply a large and fairly bland space that will be divided up into 4 classrooms. We have available to us possibly the largest auditorium in the northern suburbs as part of the school building. It holds around 1200 people and the 60 of us will rattle around like peas inside it. I know many would drool over the possibility of a stadium to fill, but I observe there are two significant tensions here.
The first is that it will shape our imagination and we will feel it is now our duty to ‘fill it’. I know there are plenty who dream of the day when the building is full… While I want people to come to faith I don’t share that dream for a big humungous beast of a ‘church’, because I think it would completely undermine who we are at present. The second tension is simply that we could choose not to meet the coliseum, but the set up required to meet elsewhere is much greater. There is virtually nothing to do in a dedicated auditorium, but it would require several people a few hours of work to set up another smaller room… So there is a tension… Which would you choose?…
> Pain and suffering have been a big part of the journey for the church community over the last few weeks. Some people have been doing it really tough and when you are a small community the pain is felt by all. I wonder what it means for us to be a missionary community in these times. The death of a leader, a cancer scare, families struggling with serious health issues all take enormous amounts of emotional energy and yet this is ‘who we are’ and ‘where we are’. I get the sense that there is a time to ‘look in’ and ‘bear one another’s burdens’ (to use the biblical phrase) and this is possibly the most important thing we could do at this time. To gee people up for work ‘out there’ when the body is going thru intense pain is like insisting you go to work on a day when your leg has been lopped off and you can’t get out of bed. A time for everything?…
> We have a church sign that sits on one of the most visible pieces of signage real estate in the suburb, but it is pretty lame and outdated… If it communicates anything it isn’t that we are a community you’d want to be associated with. As a person who isn’t really into signs, one part of me couldn’t give a fig about it… except that we have a sign and its a bad one and it is highly visible… So I am thinking that if we are going to have a sign in the most visible area in the suburb then we at least ought to have the best sign we can possibly have. If you’d told me 12 months ago I’d be pondering signage I would have laughed at you…
> So in the middle of the time constraints, physical challenges and the pain of being a church community I am finding myself having to re-imagine my own missionary identity and my own contribution as a leader. This is a new era for Danelle and I and I don’t feel like I am going back to ‘riding a bike’ and can simply hop back on. It would be easy to do that, but its not where we want to head.
One of the inspiring parts of the last 5 weeks for me has been seeing the extent to which Danelle has shared the leadership role with me. It is the first time we have been officially invited to be joint co-leaders and we are seeing it work out well. She is very pastoral and very good at identifying needs and working with people to get them met. We also function well together and value each others unique styles and emphases so it has been great to do that more intentionally in this setting.
Hey Hamo, interesting days. I hope it’s OK if I drop my $0.02.
1. As someone who has to set up each week – it’s a dog. I’d try to find a way to configure the auditorium if at all possible. I reckon there must be a way of creating a more intimate space.
2. Yep, a time for everything. Church is meant to be on mission, but we’re also a family, like you say.
3. Contemplating the same thing here about our signs. I doubt a sign every brought someone to church, but I’m willing to bet they’ve driven a few people away.
I once heard it said, “what you win people with is what you win people to” – I would hesitate to start emphasising “excellence” in signage and promotion – let people come because of the relationships that your congregation makes with their fellow human beings in their daily comings and goings – if people are put off joining you because of the quality of a sign, then I’d guess that their core values might be slightly different from your community’s values.
If on the other hand, your church had a corporate dream to fill the school “megaplex” then by all means start sinking your money into signs and promotional dvds and welcomers packs and new comers lounges and carpet and banners and lighting rigs and sound systems and … well, let’s just say that from personal experience, the rabbit hole goes pretty deep.
But this is something that you and your community will decide upon, and without a doubt it will be motivated out of what people think is best. So maybe there is no “right” decision, just what you choose to choose 😉
I think a sign is pretty important, because when people visit your website, they need to know where your church is.
I am with Alex, with this addendum.
We set up each week, and while it is tiring and a ‘dog’ it does give the men something meaningful to do and have fun and mateship while doing it.
(about 80% of our not inconsiderable growth has come through our church website)
I think a sign is pretty important, because when people visit your website, they need to know where your church is.
I am with Alex, with this addendum.
We set up each week, and while it is tiring and a ‘dog’ it does give the men something meaningful to do and have fun and mateship while doing it.
(about 80% of our growth has come through our website
I can understand where you are coming from been bio-vocational. At times it was an incredible challenge.
One of the big steps for us was just acknowledging the difficulty. Not just with leaders but the whole church.
Then for me giving some things away. Such as preaching/ teaching
Though I do think flattening leadership is easier with a church which has just been planted. Compared to a church which has already existed and there are already benchmarks with previous leadership and denominations.
I have seen the church sign that is in question..
I would like to know what is meant when you say…(If it communicates anything it isn’t that we are a community you’d want to be associated with)how could people come to this realization…
The sign communicates its a Baptist Church…is that not what people would want to know…or is that the precise problem…
Paul – the sign is faded, tired, dated and looks like no one really gives a toss. It is also hard to see Ny detail as the letters are too small.
I really have little heart for signs, but at very least it should be clear, clean and attractive.
Still can’t believe I am talking about signs…
As for being ‘baptist’? Hardly.
Round the suburbs near our place there are all these signs (paid signage on bus stops etc) put up by a Seventh Day Adventist presumably that say on one side “Forgotten something?” and on the other “It’s the Sabbath”.
It’s taking all of my self restraint not to do a midnight graffiti mission and re-model them with something along the lines of “Damn it! The milk!”
Is that sacrilegious do you think??!!
Seriously though, I think the tension is a good thing Hamo – more “pastors” should be doing “normal” jobs like the rest of society – i reckon it helps avoid the navel gazing tendencies.
Mark E –
Surely there are better things that the Church can be doing to build mateship and give men meaningful things to do, other than setting up chairs and speakers etc…? I guess it has to be done to some extent but I think letting men off the hook like that is a cop out
Doesn’t that strike at the heart of Hamo’s comments about the Church being Sunday meeting centric? We don’t seem to be able to break this obsession with buildings and a Sunday service.
ps – By cop out I mean that it kind of implies to men,”Okay you’ve done your duty by setting up and that is your act of service.”
To me that’s not what Jesus was talking about when he talked of service.
To me, it is what Jesus talked about when he talked about service, to me, it is a good way to build mateship.
the Sunday think should not be emphasised or devalued…. but the issue is that we all think we are balanced.
In contemporary mans world, which is busy, the sunday gathering is important. It gives a weekly reminder of what is important, and in my church is an important aspect of spiritual life and discipleship.
Of course there are other things they could do, but getting the place ready for corporate worship of God is very important, in my view.
I agree with you Hamo, the sign is an important statement about what we think about ourselves, and therefore what the community thinks about us.
so far in this conversation an old weathered sign has being equated with “what we think of ourselves”, “what the community thinks about us”, and a subliminal indicator that others “wouldn’t want to be part of our community” – all things that sit well within a marketing and business-oriented framework.
Is it kind of like the way you drive your car Hamo, when you have your Brighton Reticulation wheel-cover on the back of your Patrol? You don’t want people to think you are a reckless person if they are on the lookout for a local tradesman.
Unfortunately, by thinking like this, ie equating the quality of a sign with the quality of your community, I think you’ve accepted a standard of measurement that is entirely in-line with how our consumeristic culture wants us to measure ourselves and those around us.
Don’t get me wrong – if you simply wanted to spruce the sign up because it is getting weathered and hard to see (from a directions point of view) i don’t think anyone would have a “problem” with that. That is a practical problem with a practical solution.
But i think you may be inadvertently crossing into the territory you say you detest in your latest post of “falling into line”. Maybe, the condition of the sign has more to do with the idea that you don’t like equating yourself, as the pastor of this community, with a poor quality sign. Maybe you think it reflects poorly on you and your role? Maybe I’m just speaking out of my arse – which is quite possibly the case 😉
But I’d encourage you to relax a little on the quality of the sign – I reckon most people who drive past that sign (including me) don’t even give it a nanosecond’s notice – it would have lost it’s attraction value to those in your local community years ago.
But if you reckon it needs a lick of paint, roll up your sleeves and have a crack at it with a couple of mates from church, and maybe even some of the kids. Not only will it strengthen the relationships within your group (see Mark E’s post on men setting up church), but those who see you working together, as they drive through that round about, might recognise something about the quality of your community that is actually true and real and CHRISTLIKE.
I’ll shut up now – peace and grace for the journey ahead brother. Matt
Mark,
I’m not dismissing it as unimportant – I spent many years in church setting up and playing in the band, leading worship etc. But it sucks up so much time for a 1-2hr/week event.
I didn’t say that it didn’t build mateship etc. – it probably does but that doesn’t necessarily mean it should be done. I asked whether there are better things we could be doing? I don’t think the church often stops and asks why are we doing what we’re doing? To what effect?
Shouldn’t the church be challenging people to be disciples of Jesus? And challenging the culture that makes us so busy? Maybe it should be asking why are we so busy? Not just saying, “Sure, I understand you’re busy but just do this two hours and it will suffice.” Also, as someone who spent almost my entire life in “church”, I’d say a lot of the time it’s the church that makes us so busy (with most of that busyness centered somehow around the Sunday service).
Worship Time together…important
social justice…important
Community building…important
Relationship building….important
Its all important. We all think we are balanced, we aint all right.
I like what Matt said about getting a group of blokes together to do it…thats what I did, back when we had a property…we had it professionally made, but a few of us dug the holes, cemented it in…etc
http://marked35.blogspot.com/2006/08/church-sign.html
Hey Mark,
I wasn’t meaning to come across as overly critical. Apologies if it appeared that way. I just like to ask questions.
Cheers,
Dave
no worries mate! peace!
I think you have hit the nail on the head with your comments otherendup..
so far in this conversation an old weathered sign has being equated with “what we think of ourselves”, “what the community thinks about us”, and a subliminal indicator that others “wouldn’t want to be part of our community” – all things that sit well within a marketing and business-oriented framework.
Is it kind of like the way you drive your car Hamo, when you have your Brighton Reticulation wheel-cover on the back of your Patrol? You don’t want people to think you are a reckless person if they are on the lookout for a local tradesman.
Unfortunately, by thinking like this, ie equating the quality of a sign with the quality of your community, I think you’ve accepted a standard of measurement that is entirely in-line with how our consumeristic culture wants us to measure ourselves and those around us.
Don’t get me wrong – if you simply wanted to spruce the sign up because it is getting weathered and hard to see (from a directions point of view) i don’t think anyone would have a “problem” with that. That is a practical problem with a practical solution.
But i think you may be inadvertently crossing into the territory you say you detest in your latest post of “falling into line”. Maybe, the condition of the sign has more to do with the idea that you don’t like equating yourself, as the pastor of this community, with a poor quality sign. Maybe you think it reflects poorly on you and your role? Maybe I’m just speaking out of my arse – which is quite possibly the case 😉
But I’d encourage you to relax a little on the quality of the sign – I reckon most people who drive past that sign (including me) don’t even give it a nanosecond’s notice – it would have lost it’s attraction value to those in your local community years ago.
But if you reckon it needs a lick of paint, roll up your sleeves and have a crack at it with a couple of mates from church, and maybe even some of the kids. Not only will it strengthen the relationships within your group (see Mark E’s post on men setting up church), but those who see you working together, as they drive through that round about, might recognise something about the quality of your community that is actually true and real and CHRISTLIKE.
I’ll shut up now – peace and grace for the journey ahead brother. Matt
Comment by otherendup — December 6, 2009 @ 5:02 pm
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes
I saw the sign
Ace Of Base.
Here’s a few,
“Suffering from truth decay? Brush up on your Bible!”
“Don’t make me come down there! – God.”
“Jesus is the Bread of Life. Come on in and have a slice!”
“jesus the carpenter is looking for joiners”
I loved the set-up time I used to do in Albany when we met in a school shed. There was an opportunity to set it up different each week, and to feel a living connectedness to the place.
Having said that, we didn’t have kids then.
I’ve hardly been to a service in the past 15months, yet I’ve been just as busy.
As I used to be ‘busy with church’, there is obviously stuff I’m doing now that I wasn’t doing then.
Signs? “My boss is a Jewish carpenter” always says it for me… and
‘”You know that ‘love each other’ stuff I said? I meant it” God…’
Hi Matt
I hear the cautions but I don’t think we are chasing big and flashy.
I think its simply a case of something being broken and needing a fix.
I don’t think signs are the answer (as you probably know!) but I don’t think a faded and dated one is any use either.
Anyway FWIW!
hamo
Hello
Two thoughts.
1 – One off advertising doesn’t work, so one sign, on its own isn’t going to make much impact. You could do two things to try to make it effective. The first is change it regularly – but this is expensive and time consuming. Second, put the address of your church website up. Make it really clear, easy to read and people will start to remember it. Then you’ve just got to make sure your homepage is clear and up-to-date.
2 – Not knowing what the layout of this big room is going to be like. If it’s flat, put some tables out and bring food. Eat breakfast before the morning service and occasionally have something after the evening service. If you can get some screens to hide the rest of the room that would work to make it more intimate.
At least at this time of year you could do a big carol service for the community.
website is the single most important ‘sign’ we have.
a physical sign is needed to guide people once they have ‘found’ you online. a good sign is courtesy.